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Post by BnSracing on Aug 25, 2010 20:57:55 GMT -5
I agree also, I really dont like the idea of stock frames, but thats how you keep "full on drag bikes" in open classes. The wheelie bar statement was mainly a joke. Out of the 20 bikes we have, there only 4 that I would not worry about dumping backwards.
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Post by yeager73 on Aug 25, 2010 22:17:52 GMT -5
i say stick to et for the most part and when u want to run a heads up race do it on index. if u run index and make the split every 2 or 3 tenths then no one can complain since they r racing other bikes that run the same times.
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highmaintenance
Full Member
yea, I can make run, the question is can you handle it...
Posts: 163
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Post by highmaintenance on Aug 25, 2010 22:41:34 GMT -5
I figured you were just kidding around BnS...
I guess I was not meaning all classes stock frame, just having a separation for some classes could cover it. Maybe...
I am pretty clueless on the bigger classes because I haven't raced them as of yet. Mini's need separated so little guys(50-80cc bikes have a chance. Maybe we could separate them by saying no expansion pipes. I know e-tons and I think Suzuki Lt80's don't come with one. Seems like that might help a little. If you watch those classes it should even them up a little and also allow 4 stroke bikes (usually slower at take off but build speed farther down the track) compete. There are a few of those around. And I think it would be easy to enforce. It would make DRR, APEX and a few others run with bigger class which they can even stock. Maybe make class (0-80cc two stroke and 0-110cc 4 stroke) one class then go with 0-100cc open (anything goes)12 and under then maybe a monster mini class 0-150cc open(anything goes) maybe 10-15yrs. I think for safety reasons we need to watch the monster Mini class to make sure little ones don't end up on too big of bike. Seems like there is a big jump from mini class to the next class. Going from a 100cc bike at 12 to a 300cc class is a big jump. Some can handle it....some will not be able to. Maybe that's too many classes for mini's....do we have enough running for that many classes??? Maybe at times but not always....I suppose a few would jump up to the monster mini class that runs in the middle class. It would allow the new Yamaha Raptor 125cc quads a place to race. Not sure if there are any other quads out there that are 150cc's.
I am not sure how to break them up any other way with out saying no modifications. But that leaves a lot on the table to figure out. Clutch? Cam? Ported? Stroked? Bored? Carburetor? I know one thing, I am not familiar with all mini manufactures to say if it has clutch work but I can look and see an expansion chamber exhaust.
I also want to add doing a 80% payback for heads up races( fair races) seem much smoother and simple, that way trophies are not needed and if there are only 2 bikes in a class the third place trophy is not wasted. We could even add classes if we need to the evening of the race...
Just adding a buck fifty to my two cents. Now lets here some real comments for the bigger classes.....Bueller....Bueller....Bueller...lol
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highmaintenance
Full Member
yea, I can make run, the question is can you handle it...
Posts: 163
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Post by highmaintenance on Aug 25, 2010 22:53:24 GMT -5
Yearer73
That would work if there enough bikes to split it that close. We did index racing last year at the Vinton County Fair and we ended up with larger splits say 6.5-7.2. We didn't have enough to make it work. Dose anyone know how much is too much of a split in a class? What do other tracks do? I like the idea, just don't know how to make it work. Josh could better answer what the times are but I think our mini class runs from a 6.0-10 maybe slower for a couple...would we just make them run with everyone else? That could work for some, not sure how all parents feel about their youngsters running with older ones...may not be an issue.. What about handling a sandbagging issue...In E.T. you punish yourself sandbagging, you can beat a few but it's hard to win doing that. Index racing allows that. I don't want to be part of making a decision to disqualify someone for something I don't have proof of for sure...maybe their bike sputters...maybe their sandbagging....Dose that require time trials?? I can't remember..
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Post by raineysmotorsports on Aug 25, 2010 23:58:50 GMT -5
On planet sand index are .5 like 3.5-4. 4-4.5 4.5-5 5-5.5 5.5-6.0
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Post by raineysmotorsports on Aug 26, 2010 0:03:44 GMT -5
And sandbagging is part of index and et racing but u can easly break out !! I don't have vote in this just stateing facts with that said u can run one bike in two classes index racing .
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jcarr
New Member
Have brackets, will race
Posts: 19
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Post by jcarr on Aug 26, 2010 20:17:14 GMT -5
It almost sounds as if index racing might be the answer, since it is a little of both worlds. We can keep track of the time trials and set the class from there. It would be fairly easy to set up an excel sheet to set the classes and then that would take out the human interference. Set up directly on times, names or numbers will not enter in until after the classes are set At least that would be a start, we could build from there.
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highmaintenance
Full Member
yea, I can make run, the question is can you handle it...
Posts: 163
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Post by highmaintenance on Aug 26, 2010 21:32:26 GMT -5
Jeff, Are you talking about our bi-monthly races or fair races with the index racing?? I still think fair races have to be heads up because of the time issue and explaining they way index racing works. Although I do like the idea for our bi-monthly races. Just still concerned about class splits and having enough bikes....may not be an issue, hopefully there will be enough show up to race. I would say we will need at least 50 quads to make it work...If we have racers that have times like we do now and break up classes every .5 we will need to start at 3.0-3.5...3.5-4.0...4.0-4.5---4.5-5.0...5.0-5.5....5.5-6.0...6.5-7.0...7.0-7.5...7.5-8.0...8.0-8.5...8.5-9.0....9.0-9.5...10.0- Thats 13 classs...with 50 quads thats only 3.5 per class.....is that enough?? Maybe so...Have we ever had less than 50 quads?? Also .5 second splits is about as big as one could go? Wouldn't a bigger split start to get uneven?? I don't know.....
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jcarr
New Member
Have brackets, will race
Posts: 19
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Post by jcarr on Aug 27, 2010 23:43:33 GMT -5
With our limited time on fair nights, I don't think we can do anything else but heads up. That being said we can set up the classes based on our index classes that we have bi-monthly and since most want to give out points at fair races, the classes would fall pretty close to what we normally run. As far as the class break downs, a lot of that depends on how many show up. I have talked to a few about it and I suggest that we not have any less than 6 in a class and no more than 16 (even numbers means less byes). Although I understand that at first there might be some lopsided classes, the more people that show up the more even the classes will be. With 50 bikes that would mean we could have anywhere from 4 to 8 classes. I also feel that people would like more classes, (more chances to win a trophy) so that would factor in as to the number of classes we have a night.
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Post by donkeykong on Aug 28, 2010 11:30:42 GMT -5
In racing it's never going to please everyone... More people and more bitchn.
Make the rules as a club... Vote and approve the rules. If someone don't like it piss on them it's all about fun anyways.
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Post by collins3 on Aug 29, 2010 13:13:17 GMT -5
Personally I feel that the more changes you make the longer it will take to iron out the bumps. We spent several years watching cars do the same sort of ET bracket racing and no matter what rules you establish you are always going to have sandbagging and whining. I don't think there is any way around it. That's racing! As far as the classes and the modifications or lack of the NHRA has a rule book that may help to establish some sort of foundation to build on. They have 6 brackets (of course they also have more parcipitants) that are broken up on times---6.0 to 7.49, 7.5 to 9.99, 10.0 to 10.99 and so on instead of being on what you have in your car or what age you are. Each driver runs time trials to get a base line of their time. You then decide what time bracket you fall into, dial in your time. They stagger the tree just like you do to make up for the diffrence in time. The NHRA has been racing this way for many years and yes i'm sure they may have made a few people mad along the way but it seems to have paid off pretty well for them. Here's a link to their site www.nhra.com/competition/etquickref.aspxHope that helps!
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Post by rowan racing on Aug 30, 2010 0:41:25 GMT -5
heres how i feel...you can make all the rules and classes you want and set them up however you want to better the club but in the end there will still be those select few people that get into drag racing and there going to build there bikes to specific classes and there going to dominate....thats just how it works...billy bob wants to outrun jack so he builds his bike to the edge of every specific rule there is...for example...not trying to start anything but dave kinneys bike....he came to a race and was going to meet the rules and run his bike without a wheelie bar....but since his bike is fast he wasnt aloud to run...i know 5 people were gonna drop out and all that im not trying to get this going agian all im saying is there is nothing stopping us from yanking the motor out of that drag chassis putting daves motor setup in a stock chassis and me building him a long swingarm so it will spin and not flip and running it in the 525 class...so i guess what im getting at with all this is i understand if you dont want drag bikes in the normal classes and you want them in just open...but make sure to make rules strict enough to keep people from doing something like that if you want the races to be close....otherwise there will be a few that stay out front and everyone else gets upset or builds there bike faster....as for the wheelie bar thing i understand people think well if we limit them with no wheelie bar then they cant run a fast bike because they will be afraid of flipping so they will just stay out but theres ways to get around with out a wheelie bar ....it just may not be quite as fast...all im saying is i feel a wheelie bar is a good saftey factor when your trying to dump the clutch and go...
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Post by grizzly on Sept 6, 2010 21:15:29 GMT -5
how u going to do index racing base on everyone getting faster at the end of the night?
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Post by yeager73 on Sept 7, 2010 21:18:06 GMT -5
u would do it the same way as u would when u race e.t. u would run ur time trials then u would have to make an educated guess on how the bike runs from previous nights of racing to figure out which index to run.
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Post by renegaderacer on Sept 15, 2010 21:54:20 GMT -5
:(My opinion on next years races ~ HEADS UP FLAT OUT DRAG RACING!!! Thats the way it started. If people are complaining it is because the Classes aren't set up right. If you are Utility then it is Right off the Showroom Floor!! No Add ons!! When you have a stock 800cc and have to run in the open class with all the jacked up bikes you don't stand a chance. The Classes should be ~ Utility and Open classes should be whatever you bring to put in. I don't know where all these people are that wanted ET Racing but the ones I talked to want DRAG RACING.
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